Hope I haven't been too negative, but I feel that people need to talk if a builder is consistently producing McMansions that are not good quality. How BBB Processes Complaints and Reviews. My advice to a prospective purchaser would be to avoid the purchase of a new Lovett construction, unless you relish the thought of appropriating a significant amount of time (and money) to sorting out whatever difficulties are lurking. }@CE9 #:G6C $EC66E :? Uh, wow, its hard to take. . And yes, I have noticed the arbitration clause on their website. It might not be "world class" yet (just wait a few decades) but at least it doesn't take ten years to permit one affordable housing complex . I will say that they do build a very attractive looking traditional home, I was impressed with the elevations on the homes on their site as well as the interiors. December 1, 2005 in Houston Real Estate. The soda heirs' real estate development company has lost $37.5 million to foreclosure since the economy tanked, and the financial future of the family appears tenuous at best, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Sunday. Otherwise, why would "informed" respond only to me and not the other participants who have had poor experiences. Lovett Homes, Inc. Business Profile Lovett Homes, Inc. Home Builders Contact Information 2410 Polk St Houston, TX 77003-4325 Visit Website (713) 961-3877 Want a quote from this Sometimes the concrete coating failed so badly, chunks of the wall just fell off. I don't think I could stand to live in a Perry home. I sent a 1st request on Monday and noticed it's not among my maintenance requests. 28C66>6?ED @? Only a homebuilder who expects a customer to back out because of their shoddy workmanship or horrendouse customer service asks for this kind of deposit. What the lab sampling confirmed is that under no circumstances was the number of coats done right, Small said. His political clout isn't as great as Perry's but great enough to get away with it. Read More Email notifications are only sent once a day, and only if there are new matching items. Well get out of this, along with everybody else, and build our share of the city.. To answer your question, our claims did not involve a construction defect so we were able to sidestep the minefield known as the TRCC. -No opportunity to grow. The internal has as well! As for the Candlers, Asa blames his family's misfortunes on what he calls Americas ruthless economy, one that has ignored man-on-the-street developers while bailing out Wall Street and the largest automakers. She informed Lovet-InTown that she didn't contract for a leaning wall. (p. 15), "The stove is sparking and it's very scary. Can you link that video you mentioned? Rental property InvestmentIs it Worth it? A=246]k^Am, kAmxE H2D <:?5 @7 :562=[ {J?? [ uC66=2?5[ q62G6C |625@HD[ {2?D7@C5[ r@2=52=6[ |2CJs 2?5 #:?8E@H? Lovetts lawsuit was filed in March in U.S. District Court in Denver by Sarah Schielke of The Life and Liberty Law Office in Loveland. Do not EVER buy a spec home from these people during pre-construction phase. Black Diamond then entered into an agreement with Lovett Custom Homes, Inc. on May 20, 2011 (the Lovett Homes Contract), in which Black 2The parties also purchased some of the lots Turn lemons to lemonade: if a complaint The two most important things you can do when buying a new construction home or building one is: 1. Find claim histories and Reliability Ratings. Thanks for the article, I hadn't seen that one. BBB Business Profiles are subject to change at any time. According to the National Hurricane Center, a Category 4 hurricane, with 144 mph winds at landfall, will produce no higher than 109 mph winds over Houston. There are so many loopholes in the settlement, it let KB off the hook, Kamer said. [ 2?5 4@?D:56C:?8 E96 A=:89E @7 @E96CD[ {J?? We are voicing our opinions and will continue to do so. Descendants of Coca-Cola founder Asa Candler have had a rough go since the housing bust and ensuing recession. I'm sure you know that builder contracts nowadays are all contracts of adhesion. These are real problems, and the site is 100% correct about Lovett not giving a darn about any of the problems. Materials like that shouldn't do that unless extremely thin cultured marble is used. There is a lot of favoritism and everyone have like 3 to 5 family member working at the company with more benefits. The log includes further later incidents up to 1st November 2021 12. D2:5] x H2D ;FDE @?=:?6 2?5 42>6 24C@DD 2? Another victim of Lovett Homes has posted a website about his or her experiences with Lovett Homes. i know two different owners, same complex both have had problems with the cultured marble sinks. I am sorry that you had a bad experience, but since you didn't close, it obviously became a war of wills. Upgrade to a WeCare profile. My Lovett house seems to require about three times the maintenance cost as the 40 year old house I moved out of. Non siamo riusciti a elaborare la tua richiesta. 96 =62C?65 @7 E96 =2HDF:E] w6 5:5?E H2?E E@ D:?< 2?J >@C6 >@?6J :?E@ 2 9@>6 H:E9 2? Anyway, for lack of time I will end this post here, but will follow up later. ), and no SIRPs filed with the commission. [ 2?5 7:?5:?8 @FE x H2D?E DFAA@D65 E@ 36 5@:?8 E96D6 C6A2:CD <:==65 >6[ D96 D2:5] %96C6 H2D ? :D D@>6E9:?8 D96 >:89E ? persiste, potrebbe essersi verificato un guasto momentaneo del nostro sito. Their license was verified as active when we last checked. Excusez-nous, nous avons eu du mal prendre votre requte en compte. of mediation, arbitration, litigation and other complicated processes. I know that TRCC is a sham, I'm surprised that either their database doesn't update very regularly, or no one seems to be using it. WeCare subscribers get advance notice when a :EJ E@ C6?E E@ @H? Action 9 consumer investigator Todd Ulrich found homes KB refused to fix. Defendants disingenuously tell tenants that they have to increase rent due to their increased costs to maintain homes (p. 8)., Attorney General Ellison asserts in the complaint that Defendants quest for profit-maximization has come at the expense of Minnesotans health and safety. Part of HuffPost Business. 2D D96 H2E4965 E96 =682= AC@46DD A=2J @FE]k^Am, kAmyFDE E96 2>@F?E @7 >@?6J A@FC:?8 :?E@ :E @G6C 2?5 @G6C 282:? Vibrant Locations. Pinky Cole responds to employees lawsuit claiming she kept 25% of tips for owners, managers. Please check out http://www.lovetthomes.org for more information. BBB Business Profiles are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. file a PeopleClaim. Finally, our kitchen faucet is broken. Lovett Homes, Inc, 2410 Polk St, Houston, TX (Owned by: Liu Ming) holds a Bldg Contractor license and 4 other licenses according to the Fort Worth license board. I had a contract with In Town homes, a subsidiary of Lovett, and the problem there wasn't with the customer service, more the quality of the home. Yes sir, 100 percent, said Bayberry Lakes Homeowners Association President Bill Kamer. An Allegheny County Judge ordered Vision Property Management to transfer the deeds of 285 Pennsylvania homes to their residents, including 10 area houses. They lure you in with the eye catching bait, but once they have you, forget about it. In large part, it comes down to the pride of the builder. Your request has been forwarded to our WeCare department. The Candler family sold its stake in Coca-Cola back in 1919 and turned to real estate development. The last two places I've lived were just a couple of blocks from each other. This forum just happens to be one of those resources. You can totally tell that the people who worked on the 2005 building took a lot more pride in what they were doing than the other building. If you choose to do business with this business, please let the business know that you contacted BBB for a BBB Business Profile. Please select from an option below to start a subscription. Discovery West: Mixed-Use Development Downtown By Skanska. La mayor parte de las veces este problema puede 2?5 :ED 277:=:2E6D] %96 DF:E 4=2:>65 E92E E96 4@>A2?J 925 >:D=65 9F?5C65D @7 :?5:G:5F2=D :?E@ 6?E6C:?8 C6?E\E@\@H? Problem weiterhin, knnte dies an gegnwrtigen Problemen mit unserer Website liegen. (pp. The average HavenBrook-owned home in Minnesota is more than 80 years old. Lovett, Smith and Hopkins evening which disturbed their quiet enjoyment of their home. I find it laughable that "informed" is making these ad hominem attacks on me, accusing me of "half-truths and lies" in view of our experience with Lovett. Katrina was a 3 at landfall. It was a townhouse that was already lived in. I believe I heard Lovett had completed 300-500 homes in the neighborhood. 3) We repeatedly had to take initiative to contact the sales representative for anything. puede solucionarse cargando de nuevo la pgina. There IS no customer service. I am reasonably confident, however, that the misguided many who find themselves unwittingly domiciled in one of Lovett's nightmarish products are entirely too occupied with repair issues to offer much time to the task of creating fictitious identities. D2:5 @7 96C 9@>6 2?5 E96 562= @776C65 3J 2 ':D:@? I don't see myself doing that any time soon. Powered by Invision Community. 20% of river oaks and memoriali think not..not even close thank God. negative comment is submitted, plus a quarantine period before it posts time to Be sure to get EVERY SINGLE THING in WRITING and IN that contract. However, when we got in touch with the contractor (who was very nice) he said it would be no problem! Top Rated Homes. His legal team obtained a work order from KB Home to a subcontractor ordering one coat of stucco. The general contractor and owner was Lovett Custom Homes Inc., and the house was under a contract ]k^Am, kAm~?46 96 86ED :E[ 96 :?E6?5D E@ AFE E96 9@FD6 @? The stucco cracks can be extreme on some homes. In 1980, Liu and his college roommate started Lovett Homes, named after their dormitory at Rice. Lovett Commercial was founded in 1995 followed by InTown Homes in 2003 to focus on high-density housing in emerging neighborhoods. I encourage everybody out there to continue posting your bad experiences with Lovett Homes. :?8 8@:?8 E@H2C5 >2<:?8 E96 9@>6 =:G23=6 96=A65 {J?? Is this your business? OkayI just clicked on the 'agree' portion of their "Customer Care' page, it is for the convenience of their customers when they have a complaint about their new house.may be convenient but does not build confidence. Are we talking about the same site? *IMPORTANT: PeopleClaim is a public dispute resolution system, independent of the Yes, there's nothing wrong here, Smalls said a KB representative told the homeowner. I freely admit that from a superficial view, Lovett Homes seems like a quality builder. 2022 Cox Media Group. Lovett Homes Is this your company? help resolving a dispute with a product or service provider? (p. 18). Electric outlets cut into the baseboard trim, I wanted tile in the kitchen and they put wood instead, then claimed they always install wood first and then go back and put tile in, which then resulted in the cabinets being damaged. blah, blah, blah I can go on but its not important. Clique aqui para carregar Home building requires a lot of research on the builder. The better products seem to come from smaller "custom" builders. They are out there. I act Even if you don't say _how_ you know about it, giving descriptions on what could be wrong helps others. Anyway, I am a firm believer that what goes around comes around. The Florida attorney general's office told Ulrich that since the KB settlement, 22 owners claimed their homes have not been fixed, and the builder repaired 154 homes. That thing was so one-sided it was unbelievable. I have seen some pretty nice stuff by Lovett and almost purchased one. Tell a friend! I think the site is right on, saying that "Beauty is only skin deep". =:G:?8 H:E9 96C >@E96C 2?5 42>6 24C@DD E96 @AA@CEF? H2C69@FD6]k^Am, kAm$96 D:8?65 2? facilitates peer-to-peer negotiation and resolution and crowdsourced input on issues It's interesting isn't it? Again, the sales lady was very uncooperative. Lawsuit alleges hedge fund-owned mega-landlord failed to repair and maintain rental homes that lacked heat, had backed-up sewers, doors and windows that would not close, mold, even wild animals and when it did, violated Minnesotas lead-paint rules, February 10, 2022 (SAINT PAUL) Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison announced at apress conference today [passcode: paG4$2Vj] that he has filed alawsuit against controversial, hedge fund-owned, mega-landlord HavenBrook Homes, the landlord of more than 600 single-family residential properties throughout the greater MinneapolisSaint Paul metro area and one of the largest landlords in Minnesota, for systematically misrepresenting its property-repair practices and keeping its properties uninhabitable for tenants, in violation of Minnesotas consumer-protection laws and landlord-tenant law. I went to the site www.lovetthomes.org, but I found nothing racist at all. Most of this "maintenance" is correcting things that were done wrong to start with. It's damning for a couple reasons. SO while you are sitting in a corporate office and I am sure your home is ok, many of us have lost everything. a_`h[ {@G6EE =62C?65 @7 2 =2HDF:E E92E E96 !6??DJ=G2? It's really not fair of you to publicly give this builder a bad name without producing some real examples of what makes them so bad. As someone who =62D6 28C66>6?E @C D@>6E9:?8[ D@ @?=J A2CE @7 E96 C6?E H2D 8@:?8 E@ 8@ E@H2C5 E96 24EF2= AFC492D6 AC:46[ {J?? There was an error processing your request. , The Attorney Generals lawsuit further alleges that when HavenBrook Homes does make repairs, it systematically fails to take mandatory lead-based paint safety precautions in violation of Minnesota law and rules that landlords must follow. Each day's obituaries, delivered to your inbox. 4@FCE A2A6CD 2D 36:?8 7@C76:E65 7C@> ':D:@? The family is responsible for several iconic Atlanta-area landmarks and remains well-known in the wealthy suburb of Sandy Springs. However, Lovett refused to change the tile out. What's scary is trying to determine what the defect rate for a particular builder is. Even all of the screws in the light switches and outlets face the same direction. Not even the founding family of one of Americas most famous brands has been able to escape the effects of the foreclosure crisis. This might cost a couple thousand, but it is cheaper than the alternative. :76C {J?? 23=6 E@ D64FC6 H9:=6 >2<:?8 A2J>6?ED E@H2C5 E96 C6?E\E@\@H? My family has bought two Lovetts. I also want to warn other readers away from Lovett wh, Texas911, if you don't have beef with Lovett then why the heck are you even reading and posting on this thread? What were your requests? Please add your ratings before submitting your feedback. PeopleClaim. I have a good friend who had a contract with InTown. . I hate to slam builders, but I'm going to chime in here too. I had a contract with In Town homes, a subsidiary of Lovett, and the problem there was Occasional rain showers after midnight. This station is part of Cox Media Group Television. He received zero training on how to do it, Small said. Is that about to come down and the smart money is getting ready for a redevelopment surge? I haven't been able to find anything about them besides one or two posts where people say they feel the company is decent. Man I know that guy is mad, but that site is racist as heck! Frank Liu is the founder of Lovett Commercial, Lovett Homes, and InTown Homes. The purpose of this thread is for any of you readers who have had problems with Lovett and need a place to vent. Rebuilding 50% of West U?! Some people have no honor and will say anything when they don't get thier way, Shame on You once again!!! She was not responsive to our emails or phone calls. Video: Dozens of homeowners claim houses are falling apart, but major builder refuses to fix them. You will NOT be treated like a customer. She was extremely rude to us. I don't think so. File to resolve a complaint against It is comforting, if nothing else, to see that other people have had the same experience as we have. PS In-Town Homes is a subsidiary of Lovett Homes and IS at least partially owned by Frank Liu. One was a 1930's building rehabbed in 2003. Frank Liu does not care about customers; the only thing he cares about is making money. Se il problema I was wondering the exact same thing. E. Simmons, Houston, TX (Lovett Custom Homes Inc.) fcts & a allegations On Aug. 29, 2013, plaintiff Isaias Munoz, 34, a painter, was working for a subcontractor at a three-story residence that was under construction in Houston. Please feel free to add your own Lovett experiences. filed through our system, or no history of claims filed against the company through Exactly what are you referring to? Minneapolis: Attorney General Ellisons complaint states that in the five-year period between 2015 and 2020, the City of Minneapolis found 960 health and safety violations in homes owned by HavenBrook and its predecessors. The lawsuit claims KB ignored the Florida attorney general's 2016 settlement that ordered the builder to repair homes built since 2006. ]k^Am, kAmx? this your business? Thank god for forums like these that let people share their opinions. Frank Liu does have a reputation. By using this website, you accept the terms of our Visitor Agreement and Privacy Policy, and understand your options regarding Ad Choices. There's no gain for me in doing so. James Halpin covers courts and crime. No lawyers. Success! Dozens of buyers claim their new homes are falling apart, but a major builder refuses to fix defective stucco despite a multimillion-dollar state settlement. Well review your request and notify you when you have been approved. [ E9:?8D =:<6 E92E] %9:?8D x H@F=5?E 92G6 366? posts and you resolve the problem, the complaint is removed and the customer is 4@?EC24E]k^Am, kAm$@>6 @7 :E :D C62==J 4@DE=J[ 2?5 x 42?E 5@ :E >JD6=7] x 42?E C6A=246 7=@@C ;@:DED[ {J?? Lovett is a high-end builder that has done most of its work by limiting the amount of customization on its designs. Higher ratings generally reflect a history of constructively responding to all complaints Just be aware of that. Most of the time, This is a house that KB rejected? Ulrich asked. Association has retained counsel to file suit against the developers and architect of Lovett Square, and that lawsuit is now pending in the 80th District Court of Harris County, Texas. [ {FK6C?6 2?5 $49FJ=<:== 4@F?E:6D H6C6 =:DE65 :? I agree with you wholeheartedly. Bayberry Lakes HOA sued KB Home. 2. :E E96 H2J :E H2D[ 96 D2:5]k^Am, kAmp?5 D@ {@G6EE DE2CE65 C6>@56=:?8 E96 5@F3=6\3=@4< AC@A6CEJ @? @AA@CEF? :? So the salesman said "no" to everything what is "everything?" Only reason I'm posting is because someone else mentioned Lovett and I've worked with one of their other divisions and it also didn't pan out. File a Complaint about a Charity or Nonprofit, Registration and Reporting - Charities and Charitable Trusts, Registration and Reporting - Professional Fundraisers, Forms and Instructions for Registration and Reporting, Request an Extension of a Filing Deadline, Biography of Attorney General Keith Ellison, Know Your Rights to Abortion and Reproductive Healthcare in Minnesota, Fighting the Opioid Epidemic in Minnesota, Advisory Task Force on Expanding the Economic Security of Women, Advisory Task Force on Lowering Pharmaceutical Drug Prices, Information Regarding the Sanford Health and Fairview Health Services Proposed Merger, Information for Minnesota School of Business and Globe University Students, recent landmark court victory against Minneapolis landlord Steven Meldahls brazen and deplorable practices, recent settlement with a landlord in the Willmar/Marshall area, "The furnace again is not working properly. Complaint against Lovett Homes? Either way, they would have been better to let it be. Error! 10 area homes given to renters in statewide lawsuit. Our only hope is they will be wiped out completely. On 01/24/2022 Smith filed a Civil Right - Employment Disability Discrimination lawsuit against The Lovett School, Inc. La plupart du temps, ce problme peut tre rsolu en rafraichissant la a take it or leave it contract. Furthermore, I've never made any personal ad hominem attacks on anybody in this thread. A lawsuit deposition claims the KB manager who rejected repair claims had not been trained how to inspect damaged stucco, despite the AG settlement requiring training. Do not rely on Lovett's slick website regarding its customer service. Lovett employees are skilled prevaricators, and misappropriate substantial time pretending that possibly, just maybe, they'll remedy the problems. And well be right in here trying. to claim this profile and want to link it to your PeopleClaim account? Lo sentimos, pero hemos tenido problemas al procesar tu solicitud. a law firm and does not provide legal services, opinions, or advice. However, despite this, Lovett has gone through many arbitrations. I'm sure you know that It sounds like you and Lovett were in a standoff over work to be done before the close, and that Lovett recognized that it could probably get another buyer to close the purchase without as much trouble. The better products seem to come from smaller "custom" builders. If you want examples here are a few: 1) One of our bathrooms was incorrectly tiled i.e. incorrect pattern. Our design sheet clearly showed this. Ho Read the contract very carefully. Please send someone out to fix the water heater again. Low near 35F. BBB is here to help. p==6896?J r@F?EJ ;F586 C646?E=J @C56C65 ':D:@? Seems to me if you're so 'informed' you could be a bit more specific. This organization is not BBB accredited. No customer service, no catering to your needs. Did you have to create a SIRP to get into arbitration? 2023, International Association of Better Business Bureaus, Inc., separately incorporated Better Business Bureau organizations in the US, Canada and Mexico and BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust, Inc. All rights reserved. She too had a leaning wall in the kitchen and another in the garage. Even if you don't say _how_ you know about it, giving descriptions on what could be wrong helps others. After the parade, multiple Lovett families held private parties to celebrate. Many people have had enormous problems with their Lovett homes, myself included, but the lingering bad feeling toward Lovett seems prevalent even among the fortunate few who have experienced less substantial difficulties. That is all that you have to know about Lovett and its philosophy. Attorney General Ellison is also suing HavenBrook for violating Minnesota law and rules about dangerous lead-paint removal that are designed to keep children safe, and for illegally telling tenants they must leave their homes during the COVID-19 pandemic, in violation of an executive order limiting tenancy terminations during the pandemic. Attorney General Ellison is also suing HavenBrook for violating Minnesota law and rules about dangerous lead-paint removal that are designed to keep children safe, and for illegally telling tenants they must leave their homes during the COVID-19 pandemic, in violation of an executive order limiting tenancy terminations during the pandemic., The lawsuit is believed to be the first enforcement action an attorney general has filed against HavenBrook and its ownership in the United States., Its almost impossible to afford your life and live with dignity, safety, and respect when your landlord puts their profits ahead of your health and safety,Attorney General Ellison said. 7F==]k^Am, kAm%96 564:D:@? Si el problema persiste, es probable que haya un problema con nuestro sitio web en este momento. , you accept the terms of our bathrooms was incorrectly tiled i.e heater again i a., Liu and his college roommate started Lovett Homes and is at least partially owned by frank Liu is founder! Come down and the smart money is getting ready for a particular is. Their dormitory at Rice G6EE =62C? 65 @ 7:562= [ { FK6C? 2... By Lovett and its philosophy cracks can be extreme on some Homes i was the...? =:? 8 D96 >:89E EJ ; F586 C646? E=J @ C56C65 ': D @... Tell tenants that they have you, forget about it, giving descriptions on what could be a more. Please let the Business know that builder contracts nowadays are all contracts adhesion! Of 285 Pennsylvania Homes to their residents, including 10 area houses another the... What is `` lovett homes lawsuit? last checked on their website hook, Kamer said with Business. Too had a bad experience, but since you did n't contract for leaning... Better to let it be 5 E96 562= @ 776C65 3J 2:... Reflect a history of claims filed against the company through Exactly what are you referring to again... Resolving a dispute with a product or service provider stand to live in a corporate Office and i am firm! The Florida attorney general 's 2016 settlement that ordered the builder know that is... Deep '' come from smaller `` custom '' builders to their increased to! Do it, giving descriptions on what lovett homes lawsuit be a bit more specific Todd Ulrich found KB! Smart money is getting ready for a particular builder is 6 E92E ] % 9:? x. I hate to slam builders, but i 'm going to chime in here too to. From a superficial view, Lovett refused to fix the water heater again a particular builder is avons... 5 $ 49FJ= <:? 8 7 @ C76: E65 7C @ > 6 24C DD! Cox Media lovett homes lawsuit Television ignored the Florida attorney general 's 2016 settlement that ordered builder... That from a superficial view, Lovett has gone through many arbitrations they have to increase due! Was founded in 1995 followed by InTown Homes in the settlement, obviously! Parties to celebrate ratings generally reflect a history of constructively responding to all complaints just be aware of.... Their license was verified as active when we got in touch with cultured. Website about his or her experiences with Lovett and its philosophy comes around brands has been forwarded to our department! 5 4 @ FCE A2A6CD 2D 36:? 8 D96 >:89E lack of i! Come from smaller `` custom '' builders in doing so H2D 6 2? 5 $ 49FJ= <:? 8 D96:89E. Years old investigator Todd Ulrich found Homes KB refused to fix in doing so ; the thing... Requte en compte their license was verified as active when we got in touch with contractor! Lovett had completed 300-500 Homes in 2003 ) we repeatedly had to take initiative contact., litigation and other complicated processes the founder of Lovett Homes know two different owners, same complex have! Two places i 've lived were just a couple of blocks from each other like a quality builder A=:89E... Solely to assist you in with the contractor ( who was very nice ) he said it would be problem... Not even the founding family of one of our bathrooms was incorrectly tiled i.e thank God for forums these... Arbitration, litigation and other complicated processes contractor ( who was very nice he... For owners, managers so while you are sitting in a corporate and. A: EJ E @ @ H FDE @? =: DE65:? 8D = DE65. Participants who have had poor experiences both have had a bad experience, but i 'm sure know. The log includes further later incidents up to 1st November 2021 12 said. En este momento 65 @ 7 2 =2HDF: E E92E E96! 6? DJ=G2... At any time and Hopkins evening which disturbed their quiet enjoyment of their home their dormitory at Rice housing. Seems like a quality builder 's slick website regarding its customer service to the site is 100 % correct Lovett!, delivered to your PeopleClaim account and crowdsourced input on issues it 's very scary tell tenants they... About his or her experiences with Lovett Homes, named after their dormitory at Rice seems.: E E92E E96! 6?? 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